Wrestling is in serious trouble

[Nickiefeet]

I have been a fan of professional wrestling for almost all of my 44 years of existence on this planet. I have seen some good things, and some bad. Well...wrestling and the WWE are really bad right now, and I do not see any hope in sight.

Bleak outlook.

Here are my points...

I hope they're good ones.

1. There is not enough decent talent to fill two shows a week.

Really? The rising ratings, and youth push say otherwise.

And this will continue to be a problem as other wrestlers retire and join the likes of JB L, HBK, and Batista.

Funny how two of those names were suddenly made stars after being nothing more than midcarders for most off their prior careers.

I see Edge retiring soon

You're probably right.

I think Cena will leave within the next few years to make movies

The same John Cena who slated The Rock for doing the same thing? Not happening.

I see Matt Hardy going to TNA

Not. A. Star.

HHH is not getting any younger

But still has a good few years in him. He's 40, but isn't over the hill yet. He's also seems to have realised that the future is more important than him and is acting accordingly. Just ask Sheamus.

and Taker can't stay healthy long enough to make an impact.

That's been the case for years. His absence also makes no difference to Smackdown's ratings.

This week there was 4 matches on smakdown on a 2 hour show! And one of them was a divas match.

So? That's not far from the norm.

2. WWE has not had a decent storyline in 5 years.

nXtWo begs to differ.

This is probobly a cause and effect of having not enough talent. Because everyone has wrestled everyone a million times over.

No. Just no.

3. The prduction of the show is also terrible.

Really? I think the production of the show is fantastyic. The camera work is spectacular and everythong looks professional. Want to see bad production? Watch TNA.

We spend half an episode of Raw watching what happened the past couple weeks.

No. Also, what's the bad thing here?

My suggestion to the WWE would be for them to make program people will make time to watch or at least set their recorder to see, so they do not have to punish the people who do watch it with countless viewings of previous weeks events.

nXtWo. Over five million people watched last week. People want to watch.

4. Trying to strive for a PG rating is killing the product.

No it isn't.

Stopping the match because a guy gets a boo boo and there is some blood is the stupidest thing I have ever seen.

No it isn't. Yes, it disrupts the flow of the match, but it is HARDLY the stupidest thing WWE has ever done. It also makes a LOT of buisness sense, as WWE is trying to move from being regulated by the athletics commission to the entertainment commision. Vince isn't in the Wrasslin' buisness any more. Get over it.

If the little kids get upset when they see their wrestler bleed, then don't take them to wrestling.

Not to do with the fans. See: trying to change regulators. Blood is a no-no to be regulated by the same people as Two and a Half Men

Even though it is entertainment, THEY ARE ENTERTAINING US BY SIMULATED FIGHTING!!!

So are people watching people fighting in a soap opera

People bleed when they fight.

They don't cut themselves with razorblades in a fight.

We go from being told to suck it, watching HHH dressing up as Kane and have sex with a corpse, hardcore matches thet are in fact hard core to a street fight that nobody even leaves the ring, a elimination chamber match that nobody gets a scratch from.

And which is better for grooming new fans?

The most edgy thing we see now is C.M. Punks bad hair cut after rey cut his hair.

nXtWo begs to differ. Again.

5. UFC is killing WWE.

Rising Raw ratings for the last month says WWE is alive and kicking.

Vince McMahon say's he is not worried about MMA because it is two different products. He is a liar. I bet you the first thing Vince did today is check the buy rates for last nights UFC ppv.

I'll bet you he that A has people to do that for him, and B really isn't too worried about them. His company is still insanely profitable.

For the last 2 years UFC has beaten WWE on PPV buy rates with the exception of Wrestlmania.

and when Dana White thinks Vince is a genius, I think he's right. WWE knows that the market can support both products. Since both products are very profitable, I'm with Vince.

I remember the day when you would walk through the mall and all you would see is wrestling shirts. you know what you see now? Tapout, cage fighter, punishment and affliction shirts.

Nostangia is awesome aint it? Sure people are buying tapout shirts, but WWE are still shifting a ton of merchandice. Mostly to kids.

And what is sad is that Dana White has done nothing. He cleaned up MMA and got it sanctioned.

Like Vince is doing now?

and put out a solid product.

Like Vince is doing now?

A product that has sold itself and continues to sell.

Like WWE does now?

UFC will be on network television I would venture to say within the next 2 years. Dana does not use pyro or bells and whistles, he says here is my product, and it sells itself.

What will be on UFC TV? Fighters can't fight every week, and why would they do so on TV rather than PPV? UFC's buisness model is incompatible with a weekly TV programme. Note how big boxing matches aren't on TV.

Before all of you start saying I am a hater and if I don't like it, don't watch it, think about it this way. I have been a consumer of the product WWE has been putting out for many years. Don''t I have a right to complain when the product fails to meet the expectations of what it used to?

of course you do. You're wrong though.

I am not going to go through each of your rebuttles, but touch on just a few....If you think the product is good, then you have not seen good wrestling. Period! Four matches in 2 hours is not the norm. Let's say that most matches average15 minutes and that is going on the high side, then you take away 12 minutes per hour for commercials, that means that there is 36 minutes of crap an episode. Full of replays of past matches and crap like that. If people think that is not a bad thing, then I imagine they enjoy watching paint dry.

The PG content has not helped bring in new sponsers or advertising. It is the same people each week. Subway, gillette and Pep Boys. Oh...and every video game known to man. And in the ultimate act of hypocrasy, they are games that are rated for MATURE AUDIENCES.

Nobody cares about the NXT show, or the new guys on it. It's ratings blow, and the only reason they get the viewers it does is because they stick a decent WWE guy with them. When Smackdown goes to SYFY this fall, it will cease to exist.

WWE is not subject to regulation by athletic commissions and that is because it is ENTERTAINMENT and not a sport. There is no purse or prize money. Hello?

Yes, just yes....everyone has wrestled everyone time and time again. Orton/Cena, Edge/Cena, Show/Punk, Kane/Taker, Orton/Edge. I could go on and on.

If you think that the production and writing is good, then tell me how I am supposed to believe that a elimination chamber match is supposed to go on without someone bleeding? I will tell you....it doesn't. Well it does if the guys wrestle at 75%.

Again...PG rating but just recently we see a guy simulatedly ran over by a car, then we see repeated car accidents with Bret Hart in the back of a limo? Just what junior needs to see on a PG show.

I guarantee you that the people that buy PPV''s and merchandise are the adults who enjoy wrestling. If I didn't like the show, I guarantee you I wouldn't shell out 45.00 a month for PPV's for my kids unless they had a job!!!

UFC wants to be and will be on Network TV because it means product exposure, advertising, and MONEY!!! It don't matter if the fighters don't fight every week cause they have enough big names to put together a good card regardless.

I am sorry....But you are wrong.

[Insanity_X]

I am not going to go through each of your rebuttles, but touch on just a few....

I hope they're better than your fatalistic outlook which was looking for problems.

If you think the product is good, then you have not seen good wrestling. Period!

BULL SHIT. I watched the Attitude era. I spend plenty of time looking at footage of wrestling on youtube (for Benoit, Barrett Angle and Shelley matches in particular). You Are NOT going to tell me that I don't know good wreslting from shit. Get your fatalistic head out of your arse.

Four matches in 2 hours is not the norm.

On Raw, it kind of is.

Let's say that most matches average15 minutes and that is going on the high side, then you take away 12 minutes per hour for commercials, that means that there is 36 minutes of crap an episode.

Yeah, because promos are a TOTAL waste of time. How DARE WWE try and give their wrestlers characters and reasons or the fans to care. GOD DAMN THEM. Also, pure wrestling doesn't draw. Ask ROH how profitable they are.

Full of replays of past matches and crap like that.

HOW DARE WWE try to get people to CARE about the matches. GOD DAMN them for trying to sell their product.

If people think that is not a bad thing, then I imagine they enjoy watching paint dry.

Nope, I enjoy WWE.

The PG content has not helped bring in new sponsers or advertising.

rising revenue says otherwise.

It is the same people each week. Subway, gillette and Pep Boys. Oh...and every video game known to man. And in the ultimate act of hypocrasy, they are games that are rated for MATURE AUDIENCES.

The same people who are paying them good money to be affiliated with WWE? HOW DARE THEY BE LOGICAL AND ADVERTISE THEIR SPONSORS.

Nobody cares about the NXT show, or the new guys on it.

Raw's 3.5 rating says otherwise.

It's ratings blow, and the only reason they get the viewers it does is because they stick a decent WWE guy with them.

I was talking about Raw. Which was watched by 5 milllion people last week. With the highest rated hour being the one opened and closed by NXT.

When Smackdown goes to SYFY this fall, it will cease to exist.

Yes, it probably will. And it will have been a total success. Ask the guys in the hottest angle in years. And the other 9 guys geting over and exposure, as well as being entertaining (the season 1 challenges being an exception).

WWE is not subject to regulation by athletic commissions and that is because it is ENTERTAINMENT and not a sport. There is no purse or prize money. Hello?

What does WWE call itself? Sports entertainment. Key word being sports. And it absolutely was (and possibly still is. I'm not sure about that) regulated by the athletics commision. WWE sees the potential in not being a sport any more and is trying to move away from that. Not least to distance itself from the stereotype of wrestling being for kids and rednecks.

Yes, just yes....everyone has wrestled everyone time and time again. Orton/Cena, Edge/Cena, Show/Punk, Kane/Taker, Orton/Edge. I could go on and on.

And that was different in times like the attitude era how? How many times did Rock and Stone Cold headline 'Mania?

If you think that the production and writing is good, then tell me how I am supposed to believe that a elimination chamber match is supposed to go on without someone bleeding?

Blood =/= good. Grow the fuck up.I

will tell you....it doesn't. Well it does if the guys wrestle at 75%.

Let me guess, you thing chairshots to the head should be allowed too? Ask Chris Benoit how much damage they did to him.



WWE is cleaning up its image, get used to it. Want blood? watch Flair in TNA.

Again...PG rating but just recently we see a guy simulatedly ran over by a car, then we see repeated car accidents with Bret Hart in the back of a limo? Just what junior needs to see on a PG show.

Want a PG moment? Watch Bambi's mother get shot. Just what junior needs to see in a PG movie.

I guarantee you that the people that buy PPV''s and merchandise are the adults who enjoy wrestling. If I didn't like the show, I guarantee you I wouldn't shell out 45.00 a month for PPV's for my kids unless they had a job!!!

Yes, they'll be bought by parents. For their kids. Look at the top sellers on WWEshop.com. The top 10 consists of trading cards, 3 separate John Cena products, a Rey Mysterio package, some JoMo shades, a Randy Orton T-Shirt, a shopping bag a 'Best PPV matches of the year DVD' and a school set. How many adults do you see buying John Cena and Rey Mysterio shirts for themselves? your head and arse are in dangerously close prosimity.

UFC wants to be and will be on Network TV because it means product exposure, advertising, and MONEY!!! It don't matter if the fighters don't fight every week cause they have enough big names to put together a good card regardless.

OK, UFC fighters fight a couple of times a year. When do you think they'll want to do that, on PPV or on free TV? The only guys that will be willing to take the MASSIVE pay cut are the guys who nobody wants to see anyway. How many boxing TV shows are there Nickie? Also WWE Shows are 2 hour long adverts, with matches interspaced for interest. THat's something UFC can't do. Both because if you want to advertise the PPV you'll want guys on the card on the show. They won't fight (don't want to risk an injury etc)) so they'd have to do a talking segment. One of those things you hate. It wouldn't work for anytihng other than sometihng like The Ultimate fighter.

I am sorry....But you are wrong.

No, that would be you.

[Ed Burns]

I looked up some Quarterly business figures for WWE for the first QTR of 2010, and 2009... This year WWE showed a first QTR Revenue of $138.7, compared to $107.8 from the same Qtr period last year. Basically they've had an increase in overall revenue of $30.9.... Ratings have averaged between 3.2 to 3.6 the last year for Raw. Not a bad set of Ratings for Raw, seeing as it's still a top 5 weekly episodic Television show on Cable TV... The Stock figures for the last 5 years are basically an average of $10-$16 per share, which is not a big fluctuation on the Stock Market. Today, WWE stock closed the trading day @ $16.05 a share, up .93 from yesterdays' close. Businesswise WWE's doing just fine. If you want to read more, go to the Corporate section of WWE.com to see the trends in business. As for the constant comparison between UFC, and WWE, it's like comparing Apples to Oranges. One's Sports Entertainment, and scripted, the other's full contact, competition. Vince does not see UFC as his competition.

[Nickiefeet]

I am not going to go through each of your rebuttles, but touch on just a few....

I hope they're better than your fatalistic outlook which was looking for problems.

If you think the product is good, then you have not seen good wrestling. Period!

BULL SHIT. I watched the Attitude era. I spend plenty of time looking at footage of wrestling on youtube (for Benoit, Barrett Angle and Shelley matches in particular). You Are NOT going to tell me that I don't know good wreslting from shit. Get your fatalistic head out of your arse.

Four matches in 2 hours is not the norm.

On Raw, it kind of is.

Let's say that most matches average15 minutes and that is going on the high side, then you take away 12 minutes per hour for commercials, that means that there is 36 minutes of crap an episode.

Yeah, because promos are a TOTAL waste of time. How DARE WWE try and give their wrestlers characters and reasons or the fans to care. GOD DAMN THEM. Also, pure wrestling doesn't draw. Ask ROH how profitable they are.

Full of replays of past matches and crap like that.

HOW DARE WWE try to get people to CARE about the matches. GOD DAMN them for trying to sell their product.

If people think that is not a bad thing, then I imagine they enjoy watching paint dry.

Nope, I enjoy WWE.

The PG content has not helped bring in new sponsers or advertising.

rising revenue says otherwise.

It is the same people each week. Subway, gillette and Pep Boys. Oh...and every video game known to man. And in the ultimate act of hypocrasy, they are games that are rated for MATURE AUDIENCES.

The same people who are paying them good money to be affiliated with WWE? HOW DARE THEY BE LOGICAL AND ADVERTISE THEIR SPONSORS.

Nobody cares about the NXT show, or the new guys on it.

Raw's 3.5 rating says otherwise.

It's ratings blow, and the only reason they get the viewers it does is because they stick a decent WWE guy with them.

I was talking about Raw. Which was watched by 5 milllion people last week. With the highest rated hour being the one opened and closed by NXT.

When Smackdown goes to SYFY this fall, it will cease to exist.

Yes, it probably will. And it will have been a total success. Ask the guys in the hottest angle in years. And the other 9 guys geting over and exposure, as well as being entertaining (the season 1 challenges being an exception).

WWE is not subject to regulation by athletic commissions and that is because it is ENTERTAINMENT and not a sport. There is no purse or prize money. Hello?

What does WWE call itself? Sports entertainment. Key word being sports. And it absolutely was (and possibly still is. I'm not sure about that) regulated by the athletics commision. WWE sees the potential in not being a sport any more and is trying to move away from that. Not least to distance itself from the stereotype of wrestling being for kids and rednecks.

Yes, just yes....everyone has wrestled everyone time and time again. Orton/Cena, Edge/Cena, Show/Punk, Kane/Taker, Orton/Edge. I could go on and on.

And that was different in times like the attitude era how? How many times did Rock and Stone Cold headline 'Mania?

If you think that the production and writing is good, then tell me how I am supposed to believe that a elimination chamber match is supposed to go on without someone bleeding?

Blood =/= good. Grow the fuck up.I

will tell you....it doesn't. Well it does if the guys wrestle at 75%.

Let me guess, you thing chairshots to the head should be allowed too? Ask Chris Benoit how much damage they did to him.



WWE is cleaning up its image, get used to it. Want blood? watch Flair in TNA.

Again...PG rating but just recently we see a guy simulatedly ran over by a car, then we see repeated car accidents with Bret Hart in the back of a limo? Just what junior needs to see on a PG show.

Want a PG moment? Watch Bambi's mother get shot. Just what junior needs to see in a PG movie.

I guarantee you that the people that buy PPV''s and merchandise are the adults who enjoy wrestling. If I didn't like the show, I guarantee you I wouldn't shell out 45.00 a month for PPV's for my kids unless they had a job!!!

Yes, they'll be bought by parents. For their kids. Look at the top sellers on WWEshop.com. The top 10 consists of trading cards, 3 separate John Cena products, a Rey Mysterio package, some JoMo shades, a Randy Orton T-Shirt, a shopping bag a 'Best PPV matches of the year DVD' and a school set. How many adults do you see buying John Cena and Rey Mysterio shirts for themselves? your head and arse are in dangerously close prosimity.

UFC wants to be and will be on Network TV because it means product exposure, advertising, and MONEY!!! It don't matter if the fighters don't fight every week cause they have enough big names to put together a good card regardless.

OK, UFC fighters fight a couple of times a year. When do you think they'll want to do that, on PPV or on free TV? The only guys that will be willing to take the MASSIVE pay cut are the guys who nobody wants to see anyway. How many boxing TV shows are there Nickie? Also WWE Shows are 2 hour long adverts, with matches interspaced for interest. THat's something UFC can't do. Both because if you want to advertise the PPV you'll want guys on the card on the show. They won't fight (don't want to risk an injury etc)) so they'd have to do a talking segment. One of those things you hate. It wouldn't work for anytihng other than sometihng like The Ultimate fighter.

I am sorry....But you are wrong.

No, that would be you.

First...you telling me to "grow the f*ck up", and "get my head out of my arse" only shows that you can't share your thoughts in an adult and educated manner. Here...I will try one of your little jabs directed at you...."You need to stop living in your parent's basement playing worlds of warcraft and look at the big picture". Don't make it personal. if you can, try to keep it to the facts and yorur opinion. I could care less if you disagree with me. I have not used one foul word directed at you to make my point, I expect the same courtesy from you.

It is easy to show a rise in revenue if you have cut your payroll by "future endevering" or "trimming the fat" at corporate headquarters, or with the ref's or ring crew. Like WWE and most major companies have done. It is also easy to show a rise in revenue when the economy is showing a turn around. It is slow but you can gauge the turn around by sales of durable goods, which has been rising. (Durable goods purchases have been an economic indicator for decades). It is especially easy to show a rise in revenue if you compare it to the economy of 2-3 years ago. When the economy was terrible.

Promo's and character development is not the reason you have only four matches in 2 hours. It is because of the raw rebound, and them showing clips of crap that happened 3 weeks ago. WWE calls their Raw brand "the longest running episodic program on television". I don't see other "episodic programming" rehashing events from weeks past. They are filling time. And as for promo's and character development, I have to laugh. If you call Edge slamming a door into Orton's arm, or the NXT guys running in and beating the crap out of Cena a promo or character development, you need to go back and watch Dusty Roads, The Rock, Mick Foley, Jake the Snake. I could go on forever. I bet 90% of the people who watch Raw could not name half of the first NXT "class". So much for character development. The best promo that WWE has produced in the last 2 years was Cody Rhodes last night on Smackdown. It was really good. No....it was DASHING!!! If you have a decent product, you do not have to force feed it to them or if i may quote you..."HOW DARE WWE try to get people to CARE about the matches. GOD DAMN them for trying to sell their product". Redundency in wrestling does not make people watch, it jost makes it easier to time your bathroom breaks.

WWE is not, and does not have to be sanctioned by an athletec commission. Again, no purse, or prize money. no regulation. The last time it was regulated in Illinois was in 1993 if I am not mistaken.

So you don't mind the hypocracy of WWE advertising Rated M for mature games on a PG show??? Oh...wait . you call that just "advertising their sponsors" . What that says to me is that WWE will "tone down" the in ring stuff to garner a PG rating and cheat the fans, but will completely SELL OUT on that PG position to cash the checks.

Every match does not have to be a blood bath, but trying to have a steel cage match or elimination chamber match and trying to get me to believe that nobody is going to bleed is an insult to my intellegence. Whats next? A pillow fight for the WWE title?

Chair shots to the head do need to be chilled out. But don't point to Benoit for that one. I didn't see anyone make him do a flying headbutt. That was one of his finishers for god's sakes. He did that damage to himself. Having a HGH level 10 times normal is not really good for brain tissue either.

Oh...my wife and I buy every new Cena and Taker shirt or DVD that comes out. And I bet most females in the 18-35 age group by Cena's stuff. It ain't just kids. As for Mysterio, Oh wait...i am supposed to believe that Mysterio can compete with Kane or Big Show right??? against the other guys, I could buy it but not against them. To have me believe thay he can beat them is an insult to my intelligence. Might as well turn WWE into a saturday morning cartoon.

Austin and the Rock was classic and entertaining because they always had great stories behind the matches. So you didn't mind them wrestling a lot. You looked forward to it. Same with Austin/Mcmahon, Taker/mankind, and Taker/Kane. Now it is the same tired crap, and if you find the current angles entertaining or compelling, then I think you need to know that they are getting ready to put out a boxed set of "three's company". You better pre-order because supplies are limited.

How on earth did you come to the conclusion that UFC fighters would be taking a paycut by being on network TV? That is ridiculous. Let me just name a few of UFC's sponsors...Harley Davidson, Amp energy drinks, Tapout, and oh....one other....BUDWEISER!!!! I guarantee that ratings would be through the roof. And UFC has plenty of big name guys to put high quality cards together. MMA fans will watch any match because they appreciate the skill level. Not just the violence. They appreciate a reversal, or when someone passes guard, or slaps on a triangle choke or an armbar in the time it takes to blink. NFL makes huge money on network TV. Because of advertising and television revenue. They don't need PPV revenue. I am not saying that UFC is in the same league as the NFL, but they would do very well. The last few Network shows WWE has put on have flopped. Saturday Night Main Event did terrible the last 4 times.

Since winter of 1992 I have purchased all but FIVE PPV envents that WWF-WWE has put on. FIVE!!! I have spent thousands of dollars going to live tapings and house shows, and purchasing merchandise, (I make great money), and I was watching wrestling when it was still a territory business before that. I have been a lifelong fan and have earned the right to say that the watered down stuff WWE is feeding us is crap. If you wanna "drink the McMahon kool-aide" and not complain, have at it. For me, I will pass.

[Ed Burns]

Even if they're trimming "the fat", numbers don't lie. Stock quotes, and revenue reports point to steady, consistent business. It's fact. How they do business with talent has also changed over the years. When you have a guy signed to a contract, and he's not performing up to the level of that contract, you cut him. It's done the same way in UFC, the NFL, the MLB, the NBA, etc... 2 years ago, when the stock market crashed, and the financial system crashed, WWE felt the pinch on the markets, and did an amazing job in staying consistent with their quarterly figures. I'm also a fan from back in the territory days too. My favorites were the Georgia Wrestling Poromotion from the old NWA, and Jim Crocketts' promotion. Those days were classic days in the business, but they're a far cry from how the business is run today. The main thing that's being singled out here is the quality of the writing. The seasoned fans on here all know that there's plenty of improvement to be made to the Creative Dept. Blaming the PG Rating as the sole reason holds as much weight as a flea. It's been said over, and over that they can write smart, intelligent, compelling material in the PG parameters. If you have talent that doesn't portray that writing properly, then it's bad, regardless of the writing.

[Nickiefeet]

Even if they're trimming "the fat", numbers don't lie. Stock quotes, and revenue reports point to steady, consistent business. It's fact. How they do business with talent has also changed over the years. When you have a guy signed to a contract, and he's not performing up to the level of that contract, you cut him. It's done the same way in UFC, the NFL, the MLB, the NBA, etc... 2 years ago, when the stock market crashed, and the financial system crashed, WWE felt the pinch on the markets, and did an amazing job in staying consistent with their quarterly figures. I'm also a fan from back in the territory days too. My favorites were the Georgia Wrestling Poromotion from the old NWA, and Jim Crocketts' promotion. Those days were classic days in the business, but they're a far cry from how the business is run today. The main thing that's being singled out here is the quality of the writing. The seasoned fans on here all know that there's plenty of improvement to be made to the Creative Dept. Blaming the PG Rating as the sole reason holds as much weight as a flea. It's been said over, and over that they can write smart, intelligent, compelling material in the PG parameters. If you have talent that doesn't portray that writing properly, then it's bad, regardless of the writing.

You bring back some fond memories with jim Crocketts promotion and also raise some valid points. I definetly think WWE holds a much tighter reign on their employess with the way their contract is worded. Ric Flair was gonna be an ambassador for WWE after he retired from the ring, but WWE would not let him make apperances on his own because they "owned" all his licensing, and crap like that. (I would also venture to say that Flair was in financial crisis after his recent divorce as well). So he waited out his 90 day no competition clause and headed for greener pastures. Taker can't just agree to go do a autograph signing or commercial unless WWE says its ok. And I think that is crap that they have that much power. (I think it goes to the fact that it is entertainment and not competititve sports). And then they cut you when they are done with you. Now...the wrestlers know that going into it before they sign on the dotted line, so they know what they are getting into. UFC can and does cut it's fighters after they start being uncompetitive, but UFC fighters are allowed to pretty much do what they want. If they want to make a movie, or whatever...they can. The NFL is not guaranteed money and they can cut you for no reason, they do have a players union but on issues like that, they have little or no recourse. Only guaranteed money in the NFL is signing bonus. The NBA and MLB is where to be my friends. Sign on the dotted line, stay out of jail, don't get hurt riding a motorcycle and they have to pay you, even if you strike out every time, or don't score a point. Guaranteed money wether you produce or not.

And I am sorry....Although you make a valid point regarding the writing, I just don't think you can have that interesting of storyline with a PG rating. Especially after everything was so "edgy" or whatever people wish to call it. It's like being fed Prime Rib for years, then being told you gotta eat shoe leather. I think the transition is very difficult to make. And don't be suprised when mrs. McMAhon's senate bid is over and they go back to where they we're.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and ideas without making it personal.

[Insanity_X]

First...you telling me to "grow the f*ck up", and "get my head out of my arse" only shows that you can't share your thoughts in an adult and educated manner.

I'm perfectly capable of it. I just choose not to.

Here...I will try one of your little jabs directed at you...."You need to stop living in your parent's basement playing worlds of warcraft and look at the big picture".

Almost insulting. 7/10 for evvort, 3/10 for effectiveness. Also, it's called 'World of Warcraft'

Don't make it personal. if you can, try to keep it to the facts and yorur opinion.

Will do boss.

I could care less if you disagree with me.

I have a request. In future say 'couldn't' care less. It makes a heck of a lot more sence.

I have not used one foul word directed at you to make my point, I expect the same courtesy from you.

You know what happens when you assume something, right?

It is easy to show a rise in revenue if you have cut your payroll by "future endevering" or "trimming the fat" at corporate headquarters, or with the ref's or ring crew. Like WWE and most major companies have done.

Wait, you mean like every other buisness does too? Like UFC just did with Kimbo? Like buisnesses do with bad products all the time? Hell, you say that every other successful buisness does too.

It is also easy to show a rise in revenue when the economy is showing a turn around.

WWE stocks were thought of as good investments even during the worst of the reccession. It's not because of the turn around that WWE buisness is ticking over nicely.

It is slow but you can gauge the turn around by sales of durable goods, which has been rising. (Durable goods purchases have been an economic indicator for decades).

What would be a durable good in WWE? Serious question.

It is especially easy to show a rise in revenue if you compare it to the economy of 2-3 years ago. When the economy was terrible.

the same 2-3 years ago where WWE was STILL getitng consistent ratings and turning a profit.

Promo's and character development is not the reason you have only four matches in 2 hours. It is because of the raw rebound, and them showing clips of crap that happened 3 weeks ago.

Fair enough.

WWE calls their Raw brand "the longest running episodic program on television". I don't see other "episodic programming" rehashing events from weeks past.

Really? could have sworn that TV Shows reference events of previous episodes all the time. And/or have clipshows. Not to mention that most other TV shows are both shorter and not produced non stop. Filling in time with crap is sometihng that has always been done and always will be done. The only difference is that this week they decided to drop a match or two, which probably would have been meaningless anyway.

They are filling time.

yes they are. Your point? At least WWE doesn't have entire episodes made of fluff where nothing happens. At all.

And as for promo's and character development, I have to laugh. If you call Edge slamming a door into Orton's arm, or the NXT guys running in and beating the crap out of Cena a promo or character development, you need to go back and watch Dusty Roads, The Rock, Mick Foley, Jake the Snake.

Nostalgia is a beautifut thing. af for the things you listed, they were promos/characgter development. Edge's attack advanced their feud, and the NXT storyline is fucking awesome. ANd the attacks on Cena and Vince are a big part of the reason ratings are on the up, it's booking 101.

I could go on forever. I bet 90% of the people who watch Raw could not name half of the first NXT "class". So much for character development.

Except that they've been a part of the best parts of Raw in recent weeks, have closed the show ever since it started and been incredably prominent. You might have had a case for that a month ago, but not now.

The best promo that WWE has produced in the last 2 years was Cody Rhodes last night on Smackdown. It was really good. No....it was DASHING!!!

It ewas good. But for me, the best promo was the one where Drew McIntyre got sent back to Scotland. I've grown to loathe Drew McIntyre.

If you have a decent product, you do not have to force feed it to them

Advertising. Even the best products are advertised. And that's what WWE Raw is, sometihng not incredably profitable for WWE but serves to advertise things that are. It's like how the GI Joe Show was an advert for the dolls.

or if i may quote you..."HOW DARE WWE try to get people to CARE about the matches. GOD DAMN them for trying to sell their product".

Raw is a two hour long advert inserspaced with more adverts.

Redundency in wrestling does not make people watch, it jost makes it easier to time your bathroom breaks.

Since Raw is Redundant was watched by five million people last week, I'll respectfully disagree.

WWE is not, and does not have to be sanctioned by an athletec commission. Again, no purse, or prize money. no regulation. The last time it was regulated in Illinois was in 1993 if I am not mistaken.

Try again.

So you don't mind the hypocracy of WWE advertising Rated M for mature games on a PG show??? Oh...wait . you call that just "advertising their sponsors" . What that says to me is that WWE will "tone down" the in ring stuff to garner a PG rating and cheat the fans, but will completely SELL OUT on that PG position to cash the checks.

Question, are the M viedo games bering noted as sponsors of segments or shows, or in the commercial breaks? Because I'm pretty sure that WWE doesn't control the adverts during the break, nor does it profit from them.

Every match does not have to be a blood bath, but trying to have a steel cage match or elimination chamber match and trying to get me to believe that nobody is going to bleed is an insult to my intellegence.

How is it an insult? Things can look painful and intense without the aid of the red stuff. And there have been hardcore matches without bleeding anyway that had a good end result.

Whats next? A pillow fight for the WWE title?

Strawman arguement. Try harder.

Chair shots to the head do need to be chilled out. But don't point to Benoit for that one.

First off, no head shots means no reason to blade, and second off, who's a better example of why hardcore stuff needs to be toned down than Benoit?

I didn't see anyone make him do a flying headbutt.

I'll let you in on a secret there, Benoit's bonce barely touched his opponent. The diving dynamite headbut is not the main reason for the brain damage.

That was one of his finishers for god's sakes. He did that damage to himself.

yes he did.

Having a HGH level 10 times normal is not really good for brain tissue either.

Not bad for it either.

Oh...my wife and I buy every new Cena and Taker shirt or DVD that comes out. And I bet most females in the 18-35 age group by Cena's stuff. It ain't just kids.

School sets, useless sunglasses and trading cards?

As for Mysterio, Oh wait...i am supposed to believe that Mysterio can compete with Kane or Big Show right??? against the other guys, I could buy it but not against them.

A few sentences for you. 'suspension of disbelief', 'David vs Goliath', and 'It doesn't matter if it's plausible. All that matters is if it's profitable'. Don't question Rey's reign. It's illogical but his fans (of which there are an insane number) will eat it up. And besided, word on the street is that he's being given the title to stop his bellyaching.

and To have me believe thay he can beat them is an insult to my intelligence. Might as well turn WWE into a saturday morning cartoon.

Hulk Hogan actually did one of those didn't he? And also, Rey's largest fanbase is kids and Mexicans, both of whom will eat up the title reign. Rey's a good performer, and as long as the bookers aren't morons, the reign will work. implausibility or not.

Austin and the Rock was classic and entertaining because they always had great stories behind the matches. So you didn't mind them wrestling a lot. You looked forward to it. Same with Austin/Mcmahon, Taker/mankind, and Taker/Kane. Now it is the same tired crap, and if you find the current angles entertaining or compelling, then I think you need to know that they are getting ready to put out a boxed set of "three's company". You better pre-order because supplies are limited.

You might not find the current storylines interesting. That's fine, because chances are, you're not the demographic WWE is targeting. Right now WWE is in a stage where it's building for the future. Both by getting young guys to the top of the hill, and by making new, lifelong wrestling fans. Also, enjoy the booking lesson for the Nexus angle. Big shock to start off (with the best raw ending in a LONG time) with simple 'answer some questions, but create more' to generate more interest. ANd the simple booking is working. Enjoy.

How on earth did you come to the conclusion that UFC fighters would be taking a paycut by being on network TV?

I was working on the assumption that the fighters got a small cut of the PPV takings. Much like they do in wrestling.

That is ridiculous. Let me just name a few of UFC's sponsors...Harley Davidson, Amp energy drinks, Tapout, and oh....one other....BUDWEISER!!!!

WWE has massive sponsors too, and yet Bryan Danielson makes more on the indie circuit than low raking WWE midcarders wo dont get PPV bonuses.

I guarantee that ratings would be through the roof.

But it would not be sustainable on a weekly basis. The guys simply wouldn't be able to take it.

And UFC has plenty of big name guys to put high quality cards together. MMA fans will watch any match because they appreciate the skill level.

yes they will. But UFC won't be able to sustain it. And that's my point/

Not just the violence. They appreciate a reversal, or when someone passes guard, or slaps on a triangle choke or an armbar in the time it takes to blink.

Yes they do. Doesn't make a weekly TV show sustainable.

NFL makes huge money on network TV. Because of advertising and television revenue. They don't need PPV revenue.

UFC kind of does though, for the same reason that WWE does. Unless your event is going to be watched by one HELL of a lot of people, PPVs will get you more money than being on network TV.

I am not saying that UFC is in the same league as the NFL, but they would do very well. The last few Network shows WWE has put on have flopped. Saturday Night Main Event did terrible the last 4 times.

Which is irremevent, because WWE's moneymakers aren't there TV shows, they're the PPVs.

thousands of dollars going to live tapings and house shows, and purchasing merchandise, (I make great money), and I was watching wrestling when it was still a territory business before that. I have been a lifelong fan and have earned the right to say that the watered down stuff WWE is feeding us is crap. If you wanna "drink the McMahon kool-aide" and not complain, have at it. For me, I will pass.

Fair enough. Personally, I like the WWE product though. Hence the lack of criticism.

[Nickiefeet]

First...you telling me to "grow the f*ck up", and "get my head out of my arse" only shows that you can't share your thoughts in an adult and educated manner.

I'm perfectly capable of it. I just choose not to.

Here...I will try one of your little jabs directed at you...."You need to stop living in your parent's basement playing worlds of warcraft and look at the big picture".

Almost insulting. 7/10 for evvort, 3/10 for effectiveness. Also, it's called 'World of Warcraft'

Don't make it personal. if you can, try to keep it to the facts and yorur opinion.

Will do boss.

I could care less if you disagree with me.

I have a request. In future say 'couldn't' care less. It makes a heck of a lot more sence.

I have not used one foul word directed at you to make my point, I expect the same courtesy from you.

You know what happens when you assume something, right?

It is easy to show a rise in revenue if you have cut your payroll by "future endevering" or "trimming the fat" at corporate headquarters, or with the ref's or ring crew. Like WWE and most major companies have done.

Wait, you mean like every other buisness does too? Like UFC just did with Kimbo? Like buisnesses do with bad products all the time? Hell, you say that every other successful buisness does too.

It is also easy to show a rise in revenue when the economy is showing a turn around.

WWE stocks were thought of as good investments even during the worst of the reccession. It's not because of the turn around that WWE buisness is ticking over nicely.

It is slow but you can gauge the turn around by sales of durable goods, which has been rising. (Durable goods purchases have been an economic indicator for decades).

What would be a durable good in WWE? Serious question.

It is sad when you can't even discuss a topic without it turning personal. Being close minded is really sad. I hope you can get out of the basement some day and open up a little. You make some good arguments but they lose there meaning when you mix them up with sarcasm. I quit listening and refused to listen to your arguement the second you popped off. If I wasn't bored, I wouldn't be taking the time.

WWE is not a good stock no matter what it's numbers are. Why? It's because of something called market Saturation. Same problem that sites like Ebay have. WWE is always gonna be around the 11.00-15.00 range. At that price you have to have hundreds of thousands of shares to turn a profit. Even when it rises you are not going to see a huge profit. (First page of Econ 101).

Durable goods are a indicator of people spending money or not. Never said it was directly related to WWE. (Second page of Econ 101).

Sure...Dana White played the kimbo card....But he also did something that nobody else did. Gave him a chance to prove himself. He failed, he's done. Strikeforce does not even want him. Dana didn't fire Kimbo to save money, he used him to make money, and when Kimbo failed to win or be competitive, he was out.

So...I will leave you with this. Even if you disagree with someone, why do you have to make yourself look like a tool in the process? Now put down the controller, walk up the stairs, go outside, and relax. It is a beautiful day.

[Ed Burns]

Dana White's now pulling the Chuck Liddell card too. The way I see it, a stock that stays within a range of $4 to $5 dollars during heavy market fluctuations shows it's still a consistent money maker. The Revenue I stated earlier could also be interpretted as WWE cutting operating expenses, Salaries, talent, etc... I think it's good business sense to cut the fat in a down market. I think we'll agree to disagree on the aspect I presented on the writing front. I think if they were to overhaul the Creative Dept., bring in a new core of professional writers, and let the guys ad-lib their promos some more to fit their personality, the promo time may not seem so contrived. What made a guy like Austin so special in the late 90s wasn't just the Attitude Era Material, but the fact he was a wonderful talker, and could make the viewer buy into what he was selling because he had quite a bit of leeway in the way he was to present his material in his segments. He was a guy the average joe could latch onto, like Cena is the guy that kids latch onto now. I personally think the company's fine right now, and I like the way the NXT guys are getting pushed, although it still has "WCW Invasion" elements mixed in. Wrestling writers have always borrowed ideas from past angles, and have adapted them to current angles. As for Taker doing autographs, and Interviews, the WWE obviously thinks they're protecting their investment. Their contracts are heavily in favor of the Co.. Me personally, I think the industry is just fine in it's own right. If we start seeing the Ratings fall consistently under 2.5 for Raw, Revenue drop consistently, along with Attendance at the shows, then I'd say it's in trouble. I'm gonna look at this more closely as we go on. Once guys like Taker, HHH, Edge, Mysterio, and Cena move on, we'll see if the industry suffers a huge dropoff.

[Nickiefeet]

Dana White's now pulling the Chuck Liddell card too. The way I see it, a stock that stays within a range of $4 to $5 dollars during heavy market fluctuations shows it's still a consistent money maker. The Revenue I stated earlier could also be interpretted as WWE cutting operating expenses, Salaries, talent, etc... I think it's good business sense to cut the fat in a down market. I think we'll agree to disagree on the aspect I presented on the writing front. I think if they were to overhaul the Creative Dept., bring in a new core of professional writers, and let the guys ad-lib their promos some more to fit their personality, the promo time may not seem so contrived. What made a guy like Austin so special in the late 90s wasn't just the Attitude Era Material, but the fact he was a wonderful talker, and could make the viewer buy into what he was selling because he had quite a bit of leeway in the way he was to present his material in his segments. He was a guy the average joe could latch onto, like Cena is the guy that kids latch onto now. I personally think the company's fine right now, and I like the way the NXT guys are getting pushed, although it still has "WCW Invasion" elements mixed in. Wrestling writers have always borrowed ideas from past angles, and have adapted them to current angles. As for Taker doing autographs, and Interviews, the WWE obviously thinks they're protecting their investment. Their contracts are heavily in favor of the Co.. Me personally, I think the industry is just fine in it's own right. If we start seeing the Ratings fall consistently under 2.5 for Raw, Revenue drop consistently, along with Attendance at the shows, then I'd say it's in trouble. I'm gonna look at this more closely as we go on. Once guys like Taker, HHH, Edge, Mysterio, and Cena move on, we'll see if the industry suffers a huge dropoff.

I looked at the wwe stock report for the first quarter. I think there are a number of factors that show and maybe attribute to the jump in price. I looked at a five year tracking of WWE stock on my etrade account. Like most stocks, they follow a wave with their peak being around 16.00 a share and a low of around 11.00 a share. So they are pretty much at their high average. and if the five year trend is a good gauge, then it won't go much higher or go much lower than 11.00. From what I can see, the average dividend is between .16 and .33 a share. That being said, according to there first quarter report, they did receive a federal tax incentive, and they did raise their PPV cost by 5.00 per buy. This was in there report. They are also carrying more debt and have less liquid capital when compared to the same time last year. Again...this is stated in the report . I also know that WWE lowered their ticket prices due to lack of attendance at house shows and live events.

That being said, I guess maybe I am old fashioned in some instances. I miss the edge and the unpredictable aspects of the years prior. I hate a show that is very easy to predict and offers me the same match ups week after week. I guess we are just going to have agree to disagree. Yes...WWE does protect the contracts of it's talent. To a fault almost.

Thank you for a great post. I respect your opinion

[Devil's Advocate]

They are also carrying more debt and have less liquid capital when compared to the same time last year. Again...this is stated in the report . I also know that WWE lowered their ticket prices due to lack of attendance at house shows and live events.

A tiny comment here: more debt isn't necessarily bad. They are likely to be carrying more debt because they are investing...new talent, new shows, new products (didn't they recently start a kid's magazine?) etc. It isn't necessarily a suggestion that they aren't covering expenses. Same with the less liquid capital. That means they have enough money to finance some of their investing themselves, and that's a good thing.

Also, NIckiefeet, I just wanted to say not to get yourself too upset when debating w/ IX. Though he sometimes has some excellent points he also has the best talent I've seen for getting under people's skin & pi$$ing people off. He does it to *everybody*. Don't let it get to you :-)

Lastly, Ed - thanks for some great points here. I completely agree w/ you in regards to needing to change up Creative and procure a better writing team..and also that comparing WWE to UFC is apples to oranges. The two markets may overlap to some, though not a great, extent, but they are very diffierent products. Business-wise, I respect both Dana White & Vince McMahon. I think they've both done quite well navigating times which have not been easy for business. I think you will see UFC remain a hybrid of PPV & TV for awhile. Although, if you notice, they've been angling toward getting more fights on live TV; I think this helps to draw people in to the sport . It is a way of marketing the PPV's, if you will.

[Nickiefeet]

They are also carrying more debt and have less liquid capital when compared to the same time last year. Again...this is stated in the report . I also know that WWE lowered their ticket prices due to lack of attendance at house shows and live events.

A tiny comment here: more debt isn't necessarily bad. They are likely to be carrying more debt because they are investing...new talent, new shows, new products (didn't they recently start a kid's magazine?) etc. It isn't necessarily a suggestion that they aren't covering expenses. Same with the less liquid capital. That means they have enough money to finance some of their investing themselves, and that's a good thing.

Also, NIckiefeet, I just wanted to say not to get yourself too upset when debating w/ IX. Though he sometimes has some excellent points he also has the best talent I've seen for getting under people's skin & pi$$ing people off. He does it to *everybody*. Don't let it get to you :-)

Lastly, Ed - thanks for some great points here. I completely agree w/ you in regards to needing to change up Creative and procure a better writing team..and also that comparing WWE to UFC is apples to oranges. The two markets may overlap to some, though not a great, extent, but they are very diffierent products. Business-wise, I respect both Dana White & Vince McMahon. I think they've both done quite well navigating times which have not been easy for business. I think you will see UFC remain a hybrid of PPV & TV for awhile. Although, if you notice, they've been angling toward getting more fights on live TV; I think this helps to draw people in to the sport . It is a way of marketing the PPV's, if you will.

I appreciate the advice. I usually don't let that stuff get to me but I work as a Physicians Assistant for a vascular surgeon, and we did an emergency bypass and fem-pop bypass friday night into saturday morning, and had not slept in awhile. I was pretty zonked but couldn't leave till charting was done and orders had been written. In retrospect I was pretty convinced I was right and was pretty closed minded. I was pretty much guilty of doing what I accused him of doing. Oh well...the sun came up today, I am alive and life is good. Can't ask for much else.

[Devil's Advocate]

. In retrospect I was pretty convinced I was right and was pretty closed minded. I was pretty much guilty of doing what I accused him of doing. Oh well...the sun came up today, I am alive and life is good. Can't ask for much else.

I love your attitude! Keep it forever!!

[BrownEyez]

I just think that, if they haven't already, maybe wwe corp should use retired wrestlers, who show an insight, to write for wwe. Who better to be on creative, than the people who were already the product? experience would prove profitable and those men and women who lives were wrestling, can still work in the business they know best. I would find it interesting to see what could happen.

[Ed Burns]

They're using Michael Hayes as the Chief Writer for Smackdown. He used to wrestle in Georgia, World Class, the NWA, Japan, and the UWF, etc... He wrestled for well over 25 years. My problem with him is I think he's out of material. I like the idea of bringing more retired wrestlers in to write. Austin, and the Rock would be good choices to bring in ideas if WWE was their sole focus. Those would be my picks because of their experience in Hollywood, working in films. I also think they have to add some polished writers into the staff too. That way they can come up with some more intricate feud ideas, and angles. Being PG doesn't mean they can't do good quality storylines.

[BrownEyez]

Do you think that getting "polished writers" may hurt the storylines eventually? maybe turning the wwe into like a daytime soap opera or some weird version of that? I mean a writer can only write what they know to have worked in the past, and if wwe hires writers from some tv sitcom or something like that, we may be hearing laugh tracks after a sleeperhold in released.

[Veritas]

I think the problem is that WWE doesn't have enough writers. WWE needs the same amount of writers that your average drama show has times four (as they have four times the amount of programming). Add in that WWE doesn't go on hiatus, you should increase that number by at least two times.

This three, four writer schtick should be replaced by 20-30 working in 3-4 month bursts each, followed by 1-2 months off to "recharge".

[Insanity_X]

they're doing fine though. The Nexus Storyline is fucking great, and the Kane 'Taker storyline was too. Predictable doesn't always mean bad. It was the best they could do at such short notice really. Who else could have sdone it realistically.

Everybody else on smackdown as a heel isn't at the level where they could feud with 'Taker, and Wade Barrett and Chums are busy getting the Cena rub.

[Veritas]

Right now, they're doing pretty good. I'm actually watching Summerslam, and the 7v7 is pretty damn good. I like the way it developed. And boy, did Bret Hart blow me away. Who knew he could still slam guys! Even if it's a little fuck like that.

[Ed Burns]

Gerwitz gets the credit for the Nexus angle. He's the chief writer for Raw. I beg to differ on the Kane/Taker storyline. I find it boring. I agree with Veritas in that they need to expand the writing dept. to atleast 30 writers. They also need to take Stephanie Mcmahon out of the position as head of Creative. I don't think she's all that Creative, compared to her father. I've said over, and over that Raw's much better than Smackdown, and I'll stand by that thought.