Are We Too Harsh?

[Dan]

This is a slightly trivial topic but it's worth a discussion I think. I see two trains of thought on the forum regarding the treatment of n00bs who haven't a clue how to conduct themselves here. One approach is to go easy on them, after all they may be young and/or inexperienced online and just need help breaking in. The other approach is to tell them how it is, no holds barded, their nonsense shouldn't be tolerated - if you can't deal with it leave.

I've always been of the latter approach, although not as ruthless as some of you guys since I am biased by the fact I don't want to drive away visitors of the site no matter who they are.

However thinking back to when I first started this place I was almost as bad as them - one liners, net speak all that shit. This forum (or the old proboards forum I should say) was crammed with that kind of stuff. I quickly cut that out as did most of the visitors, but it doesn't change the fact most teenagers (and I'm going to sound like a complete snob) especially wrestling fans may not be the most forum-savvy right away.

[Insanity_X]

...I'm going to assume that everybody knows my opinion on this. and also, the rules state that you should be harsh. (as I'm fond of pointing out) you get one warning then you get banned. most people get numerous warnings and requests/demands to read the rules before any real action is taken.

It's ok for someone new to post badly. however, if they dont change after being told to read the rules... repeatedly; and getting their threads locked... repeatedly, they should be kicked out.

it isn't being harsh, it's pest control.

[Lizifer]

Tough call.

I'm going to agree with Insanity_X that it seems after the first few warnings, n00bs will continuously post without actually abiding by the rules. You're trying to keep a quality forum up, and letting little things like this slip by will start to irritate the frequent visitors and the board users will go down as well as traffic. So I'm all for quickly exterminating the pests who don't seem to get it.

In most cases I would say the average visitor has some grasp on the english system of writing and using net speak is, without a doubt, lazy, hard to read and distracting. I don't think you're really asking for essay written, proofread literature here, asking for complete grammatical sentences and such. And really, shouldn't most users here understand the concept of rules and consequences?

[Dan]

...I'm going to assume that everybody knows my opinion on this. and also, the rules state that you should be harsh. (as I'm fond of pointing out) you get one warning then you get banned. most people get numerous warnings and requests/demands to read the rules before any real action is taken.

It's ok for someone new to post badly. however, if they dont change after being told to read the rules... repeatedly; and getting their threads locked... repeatedly, they should be kicked out.

it isn't being harsh, it's pest control.

The rules do say that, but since the person who wrote them is questioning them - it's not as if I can't change them based on this discussion.

I'm not really talking about the repeat offenders I'm talking about the first time posters who get a bashing. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing IX and co. rip into them - I just have to bare in mind that, that person we've sent away could have become a decent poster.

Of course you also have a point Liz. Appease the n00bs and risk losing the current members. Obviously I don't want to do that!

[Shadow Soul]

Are we too harsh....nope

There is nothing more annoying than having to go through thread after thread of baseless one sentence posts that are either against the rules in the first place or have been asked and answered a thousand times already.

As for net speak, text speak or even trying to read posts that have no punctuation at all and just run together like some outpouring of visual diarrhea. I'm no grammar Nazi and since I'm dyslexic I'd be a bloody hypocrite if I was one but it is a refreshing change to be able to read a well written post.

Sure, we will get the young/or even not so young brand new Taker fans that are all hyper etc, and yep they get given some slack but there are rules and if they cannot be bothered to read them then they have no right to complain if and when they are shown the door.

Over the years I've seen far too many sites descend into chaos because the powers that be let things slide. I suppose one option would be to have it set so that any newbie posters have their first few posts vetted before they gain proper posting privileges that way not only does it stop all the dumb/often asked/against the rules posts but will show anyone that wants to join...that we don't suffer fools.

[Ed Burns]

I don't think we're too harsh. I've had the humble pie fed to me a few times on here for being ridiculous. I learned the rules. Hopefully I've improved the quality of my posts. Newbies need to follow the rules. It's annoying when you politely tell them to read the rules, that what they're doing is against the rules, yet they post the same crap again. To me, that's ignorance on their part when they've been told repeatedly to read the rules, and stop posting BS Topics, and they continue to. Yes we were all newbies, but we all learned how to conduct ourselves properly here. The ones that don't, should be banned.

[Lucinda]

Hmmm...I think we (and by "we," I don't mean everyone, of course) may be just a little bit too harsh sometimes when it comes to new posters. I mean, honestly, what's the point of bashing someone who has to total post count of 5 or 7 posts? While it is true that there needs to be come level of order on the Forum, there also should be a level of respect as well. And, in general, we're pretty respectful here. But some noobs get it pretty hard, and from multiple people, and I really think that, sometimes, it's more for cruel amusement than for the purpose of correcting a mistake and helping someone out. On both sides, motivation (which, admittedly, we may not be able to completely determine) is what counts. Are they posting one-lines because they are used to it? Because they're new? Because they want to annoy others? Are we correcting them because it'll make the forum better? Because it'll give us some slightly sadistic pleasure and a small superior feeling? And so on.

That being said, I also agree that a person should get a few warnings, and then, if they continue to break the rules, they should be banned and such. However, a "warning" should not consist of insults, unnecessary threats, etc, because that's simply...well, too harsh! It's easy, after a while, to determine who's going to be a consistent poster, or who'll continue with one-lines and pointless topics, but, in fairness, we should at least give people something of a chance. And we should give them a chance respectfully. Very few people are drawn to the "Bow to me, n00b!" attitude, and many will simply say, "Screw this, I was just here to talk about 'Taker, not have my intelligence insulted." I'm sure that I would feel the same way!

Along with that, it's really off-putting when people have the odd "The internet is SERIOUS BUSINESS!" mentality. It's as annoying as netspeak!

So, basically (TL;DR), I think we should be nice. Not to say that it should be "anything goes," but we should treat both the new and the old with respect. And I forget where I read it first (ah, I think it was actually from a Drizzt book!), but we should grant the person a certain amount of respect first, rather than "making" them "earn it." That way, if they lose it, it's on them, and if they retain it and increase it, well, then, we have another great contributor to a great forum!

(Shoot...I still talk too much... )

[Veritas]

It depends on the type of poster. It really does; I tend to use my judgment before flaming someone too harshly. There's a difference between bad grammar and bad thinking, and poor posting. Poor posting involves breaking established forum rules and failing to establish meaningful discussion, and is something that can usually be corrected with advice instead of flaming. The former, bad grammar and thinking, should be flamed. That can rarely be fixed.

[Straya95]

I don't think we're too harsh. I've had the humble pie fed to me a few times on here for being ridiculous. I learned the rules.

We all have. The fact is all of us aren't going to get into someone for no reason, the fact is that maybe the first five times we get into them they will think we are being to harsh, but after that if the read the rules they will understand and hopefully change. If they want to continue to post one liners then we have to do something about it.

It depends on the type of poster. It really does; I tend to use my judgment before flaming someone too harshly. There's a difference between bad grammar and bad thinking, and poor posting. Poor posting involves breaking established forum rules and failing to establish meaningful discussion, and is something that can usually be corrected with advice instead of flaming. The former, bad grammar and thinking, should be flamed. That can rarely be fixed.

I think it would be opposite, Veritas, not saying you're wrong but saying grammer should be flammed eventually but that could be fixed easier than bad posting. Bad posting is breaking the rules, and the rules are the rules, the first thing i did and most over people would read the rules and go ok can I abide by them? sure some people dont read them and pick it up as they go but most of those who dont get flamed, but again if they want to stay here then they will do what is needed.

Grammar is wonderful if used well of it isn't its a pain. When I first showed up I believe I had shocking grammer (Australia is layed back and lazy when we talk we put five words into one) but i adapted and now I believe that i am a relatively decent poster. Grammer can improve (see BAD01) with time if it doesn't then flame them all you want.

Are we to harsh simply 'No'.

[Mysteriosphenom1224]

Well since i was one of those n00bs posting BS topics and one-liners I got told to stop posting like that or get out harshly and i gotta say that freakin' blowed. But it did teach me to post better topics and to not post 1-liners. I believe that sometimes we're harsh. like for Americanbadass PMing people just saying hi. i believe that we just need to layout the rules but not to harshly because when i got the Harsh way of learning i was 55% of the way to ditching the site and going to another one. and since we dont want to drive away the newcomers i think we should ease up a-little on the n00bs. Another example Jamesdude's Raw topic in the PFFW thread getting taken down by IX. he stated that IX took it harshly or something like that but its what we mods do. There are always going to be n00bs on sites not following what the rules are. they just need them to read the rules so we can reduce the number of those n00bs

[Nick]

Well, as it points out, most of us on the forum hate newbies. But at one time, we were in the exact same position when we first started posting(excluding Dan). It is not in our, or the moderators control who can join. Anyone can post here as it is a free trafficing forum, of course. There is nothing wrong with the noobs of the forum to post one-lined statements in threads(one or two aren't bad), but it does get to the point of irritation if someone doesn't explain to the person or persons what they are doing wrong, and how it can be corrected and/or be dealt with by punishment of forum regulations(if the one-lined posts are coherent).

I'm taking AmericanBadass1962 for example. She's been on the forum for what.. two weeks. BRG, Lucinda, Insanity_X and myself have already mentioned it to her about the one-lined posting, but as it's turning out, she's not listening. Something needs to be done. Ok enough of this subject.

Dan, I do believe that sometimes the mods can take things to a different approach. You aren't "Too Harsh" to a certain extent. I do believe that these "newbies" can be dealt with, and I quote from Lucinda's post:

"While it is true that there needs to be come level of order on the Forum, there also should be a level of respect as well."

But as it turns out, the respect level here is down the shithole. While it is true that at first newbies should be treated with respect, but after a certian amount of time and resistance to regard by our regulations here, they should be bashed apon.

So while this might be straight to the point, my response to "Are We Too Harsh?" is just simply "NO".

[Veritas]

Did anyone hate me when I started posting? Or Ed Burns? Or Insanity? No. Some posters are very good to have straight away. Others are less so. It all depends on how they do it.

[wwechristina]

I don't think you're too harsh, we all have the right to express our opinions, even though they may seem mean to other members. I believe that the newbies have to learn the rules of the forum so that they won't be banned. If they can understand the rules, then they wouldn't have get warnings or being banned. If I was to post a one word phrase on here, and then get a warning, I would've been totally embarrassed. Before I joined the forum, I read the rules on how to post a topic here and there. I followed the rules and everything came out okay. If the newbies receive a warning, then they should learn from their mistakes. Rules are rules and we have to follow them no matter what.

[Nick]

Did anyone hate me when I started posting? Or Ed Burns? Or Insanity? No. Some posters are very good to have straight away. Others are less so. It all depends on how they do it.

Well Veritas, that's because unlike the people who post "lik diz" you, Ed Burns, and Insanity actually post literate comments that acutally make sense, and do not bore us.

[Lizifer]

I have to admit I was very wary for my first few posts. Not so much net speak, but the whole, writing up new topics, carrying on discussions and worrying if my point of view would draw fire from people that wouldn't agree with me. >__> I lurked the forum for a month or two before I actually got the nerve to sign up and start, talking to other people.

So I don't know about harsh, but probably just a little intimidating.

[Nick]

I have to admit I was very wary for my first few posts. Not so much net speak, but the whole, writing up new topics, carrying on discussions and worrying if my point of view would draw fire from people that wouldn't agree with me. >__> I lurked the forum for a month or two before I actually got the nerve to sign up and start, talking to other people.

So I don't know about harsh, but probably just a little intimidating.

It's not so much intimidating Lizifer, just not as much as people understanding how to communicate with other people over the internet. That's basically what a forum is, and we don't need to get irritated by people not following forum regulations, am I correct?

[Lizifer]

It's not so much intimidating Lizifer, just not as much as people understanding how to communicate with other people over the internet. That's basically what a forum is, and we don't need to get irritated by people not following forum regulations, am I correct?

No I hear where you're coming from. While broken rules need to be addressed, it probably should be more business like, I guess? Give them an inch and hope they get it?

And you're right, there's no reason to get angry at someone making posts onto a forum. Internet is definitely not serious business.

What I meant about the intimidating was, the kind of atmosphere that the forum might initially have across to someone new and see people jump all over someone making a mistake, might sway someone from signing up. So it would be another reason to not have the kind of attitude to a n00b.

[Nick]

No I hear where you're coming from. While broken rules need to be addressed, it probably should be more business like, I guess? Give them an inch and hope they get it?

And you're right, there's no reason to get angry at someone making posts onto a forum. Internet is definitely not serious business.

What I meant about the intimidating was, the kind of atmosphere that the forum might initially have across to someone new and see people jump all over someone making a mistake, might sway someone from signing up. So it would be another reason to not have the kind of attitude to a n00b.

I'm pretty sure that most people treat noobs like shit is because we don't exactly know the person, or where they really "come from" if you catch my drift. Noobs are people too. They have feelings and emotions, just like us.

But I won't and can't stand for disloyalty for the forum rules. If someone treats this forum like shit, well then...that person should be treated like shit too.

[Ed Burns]

I wasn't intimidated when I joined the Forums, but I wasn't sure if the regulars here would've responded to new topics if I posted them. I try to post quality posts. I'll say this, none of my posts match the quality of Lukes' posts. That's the truth. The newbies that constantly post one liners should look at some of Lukes' posts to see what quality is, and follow the rules.

[Nick]

I wasn't intimidated when I joined the Forums, but I wasn't sure if the regulars here would've responded to new topics if I posted them. I try to post quality posts. I'll say this, none of my posts match the quality of Lukes' posts. That's the truth. The newbies that constantly post one liners should look at some of Lukes' posts to see what quality is, and follow the rules.

True, only a few people can match the "quality" of posts. Luke, Dan, Veritas, Insanity_X, You(Ed Burns), Lizifer, Lucinda, BoogerRedsGirl, and myself. Just thought I'd post the ones whose names I see alot around the Forum.