Something I absolutely hate about WWE.

[BigEvilNerd]

I was watching KOTR2002 the other day, and I got to thinking upon seeing Undertaker/HHH promos.

Why does WWE make heels automatically become absolute wusses? I mean, is that a rule or something? Here are a couple of examples:

HHH: When a face, he's a destuctive force that can tear through any man in the WWE. As a heel, he's a scaredy cat wuss who needs evolution to help him win matches.

Undertaker: As a face (and most of the time as a heel) he's completely unstoppable. As a heel (Big Evil 2002) he runs from fights and uses cheap tactics to win. (Tights grab, low blow etc.) What is up with that? Even as a heel he should be all-powerful and bad ass, not automatically turn into some little girly man just because he's a bad guy.

Bradshaw: As a face in the APA, he was a beer-drinkin' roughneck who fought for fun. As JBL, he's a complete coward.

Steve Austin (2001): See Bradshaw.

Does this bother you guys as well? Heels don't have to be wusses. Look at Jake Roberts...one of the most evil heels in the history of WWE, but he was a straight up fighter who could scare you to death with one of his promos without raising his voice from a low tone.

[weirdoscherich]

Yeah I noticed that too. I couldn't agree more with what you said. I mean it does seem everytime when someone is a heel they are usually cowards. Take the Rock when he turned heel in 2003. He ran from Austin or he wouldn't enter the ring and attacked him from behind. I hate that when they do that. I couldn't agree more though Taker is awesome as a heel but at the same time they still make him look scared or something like that every now and then. The good thing about his heel run in 2002 though was when he was champ he took on all comers. I noticed that too though man I just never thought to post it. Later!

[bigeviltaker]

It does irritate me, especially with the Undertaker in 2002. It was even more stupid because two months after KOTR 2002 Taker was a face again and not afraid of anyone.
Mind you, this was the only time with Undertaker that he seemed like this. When the Dead Man was a heel in 1990 and 91, and in 98 and 99 he was still the unstoppable force that would tear through all his competition.

I do agree with what you said about HHH being face/heel and also Bradshaw and Austin and how they seem to change their gimmick almost.

[3XtremeTaker]

WWE isn't the only ones who do this. TNA have Jeff Jarret do exactly the same thing. All the cowardly moves heels pull are just Heel Moves! If you want to sell a heel, you've got to have them use bad tactics and run away from fights because that will get them over with the fans!

Jericho can sometimes make heel moves work for face moves

[BigEvilNerd]

WWE isn't the only ones who do this. TNA have Jeff Jarret do exactly the same thing. All the cowardly moves heels pull are just Heel Moves! If you want to sell a heel, you've got to have them use bad tactics and run away from fights because that will get them over with the fans!

Jericho can sometimes make heel moves work for face moves

I have to disagree 100%. In Mick Foley's book, he talked about how he was constantly told to beg for mercy, do eye rakes and low blows, run from fights etc. when he was in the memphis territory. He said that he had a better idea of how a heel should be. Instead of doing all the same tactics over and over, they should have their own perosna that makes the fans hate them, but also be afraid of what they might do in the ring. That gets the babyface over more. Jake Roberts and Mick Foley are the two guys I can think of that did this best...and UT of course.

[LadyUndertaker]

I never thought of that before I read your post, BigEvilNerd. The more I look at your commentary, the more I agree with you. I was just watching Judgement Day 2004 with Bradshaw vs. Guerrero, and all that JBL did was basically try to run away and use cheap shots. Same thing with the cage match with Eddie on Smackdown.

To date myself, I remember Jake ( I think you were talking about Jake the Snake?) and how he was such a great heel. He wrestled the daylights out of people and could back up the trash he was talking. Seeing him in action was a blast!

Heels should not have to resort to such low brow tactics and lose wrestling abiltiy. This becomes way to repetitive and after seeing this over and over and over again.

[BigEvilNerd]

I never thought of that before I read your post, BigEvilNerd. The more I look at your commentary, the more I agree with you. I was just watching Judgement Day 2004 with Bradshaw vs. Guerrero, and all that JBL did was basically try to run away and use cheap shots. Same thing with the cage match with Eddie on Smackdown.

To date myself, I remember Jake ( I think you were talking about Jake the Snake?) and how he was such a great heel. He wrestled the daylights out of people and could back up the trash he was talking. Seeing him in action was a blast!

Heels should not have to resort to such low brow tactics and lose wrestling abiltiy. This becomes way to repetitive and after seeing this over and over and over again.

I was indeed talking about Jake "The Snake" Roberts.

I'm glad someone else remembers him as that great heel that everyone hated, but was also afraid of. I was.

And it does get repetitive after a while. I want to see a strong heel for once.

[MinistryTaker]

I always think that it's quite stupid when WWE do that, especially when the people doing it were big unstoppable guys as faces, e.g. HHH and Undertaker in 2002. People like Jericho and Flair can play that role well as faces and heels but with people like Taker, HHH and Lesnar (who even did it sometimes) it seems stupid. There are many other ways to get people over as heels without making them look like wimps. I've never seen Jake The Snake in action but from the way that you've been describing him I can get a picture in my head of what he's like. Doing bad things while showing no fear. That works a lot of the time and I don't know why WWE seem to go for the scaredy-cat option more. The only person that comes to mind really quickly here is Kane. He doesn't usually back down from anything or get scared (even though he was starting to p*** his pants when Taker returned at Wrestlemania XX) and he gets very angry a lot more of the time. There are others like Tomko, Batista and Reigns but they aren't as big-names as some of the other guys who do act like wimps. I just wish WWE would think out some of their characters more clearly lately.

[RestInPeace]

i agree.....i loved taker as a heel tho....HHH was good as face....kane and taker were good....eh heels kinda suck

[DXTaker]

Here's one thing I hate about WWE (sorry to go a wee bit off-topic here): How WWE buries talent. Its like some people never get to see the light of day, yet probably wrestle better than the rosters. People like the WCW Cruiserweights never got a good push, thus ending WCW. WWE never learned from WCW mistakes, and KABLAM! a slow death for WWE.

[Richard Walker]

Things like these can get incredibly annoying, and this is kinda where WWE loses touch with reality. If you ask me, a heel shouldn't have to do all the usual crap like low blows, running from the face, etc, etc. The heel should have a unique way to make the fans hate him, like just plain arrogance or something like that.

Or was that said somewhere else in the thread...

[3XtremeTaker]

I have read the first Foley book, but it was ages ago so i cnt remember the memphis bit! I'll have to check that out. WWE are getting better at this Pushi-ing thing in my opinion. They seem to have listened to us, and given Spike Dudley a run at the Cruiserweight title. They've also got people like Benoit over on Raw, who is long overdue, and one of the best Champs WWE has seen in the past 2 years!

[Jeff]

Yeah I geuss thats true but mainly because the wwe wants you to hate them and that can't happen If they are blowing through everyone it works better if they run and cheat and I geuss that does kind of make them wusses

[tombstone2004]

Heels are such wusses now adays taker was heel o i guess i always liked him or something lol

[BigEvilNerd]

Yeah I geuss thats true but mainly because the wwe wants you to hate them and that can't happen If they are blowing through everyone it works better if they run and cheat and I geuss that does kind of make them wusses

Yeah, for some people, the run and hide type stuff works well when they are heels. Flair is one example.

However, my main point is that guys who are pushed as being unstoppable as faces should not be pushed as wusses when they are heels. It completely negates their credibility as a face, and people's belief in their wrestling ability.

[Ed Burns]

Bump.

I decided to bump this thread forward. I've been thinking about things WWE does, that I cannot stand. I'm not a know it all, and I can care less if WWE bashes people like me for being an armchair booking agent. There's 2 real things I can't stand about WWE. The first of which is the de-valuing of the Titles. When was the last time the U.S. Title was defended at a Wrestlemania, or on a regular basis? If they don't want to feature this Title, or the I-C Belt anymore, eliminate them all together. I'd rather see WWE keep them on TV on a regular basis, instead of them putting them on to fill space because they can't think of any useless "Backstage entertainment comedy spots" with talent that should basically be released. It's pathetic.

Look at the I-C belt... It was once the workhorse Title for the guys getting ready for that Main Event slot on the card. Now, it flops between Kofi, and any number of guys that are no where near ready for the Main Event, save for Barrett, who has Main Event experience. Guys like Barrett, Sheamus, Morrison, Ziggles, and Kofi have worn that Title, and are capable of putting on great matches. The problem is, that Title isn't a part of the Entertainment vision the company has set for it's future programming.

Even the WWE Title, and the World Heavyweight Title have been de-valued some. Look at how the WWE Champion took a backseat to Cena, and The Rock at Wrestlemania 27. the Miz is the best heel in the biz right now. Why not put him forward, and let Cena, and The Rock have their battle separate? To me, it's good they took a chance on Miz getting the Title run, but they crapped all over him at Mania. He looked weaker to me after the show, even though he kept the Title.

The booking of the World Heavyweight Title was an absolute joke at Mania. You don't put a Main event match on as the first match of the night, and use the "bang for the buck" excuse as to why the match was placed where it was. It's the second biggest Title in WWE. Basically it's time for WWE to unify all of the Titles, and then feature them more prominently in the stories. The show can still be entertaining as it was in 2000, when WWE was hot, and the Title was the focal point of the top stories.

Which brings me to the booking... Wrestlemania 27, to me, was absolutely, the worst booking I've ever seen in a Wrestlemania in terms of match order, Hyping Undertaker, and Triple H as the biggest match on the card, only to book it before a mixed Tag match featuring a non wrestler who in reality has absolutely no talent what so ever, is the worst decision made by WWE. I still say whoever made that decision should be drawn, and quartered after they're immediately fired for ineptitude in booking. That was still an abomination, and an abysmal match order which ruined the event for me. After Taker/Triple H, I could care less about the rest of the show. If WWE feels the need to continually bring in celebrities for Mania, don't make your in ring talent job to the celebrities either. It's a slap at the talent. Snooki isn't deserving of having someone job to her... Have that little orange, talentless piece of crap come out, and wave to the crowd a couple times, and then get the hell out of the ring. WWE needs to showcase the people that busted their asses all year long, not a little pumpkin that smells like it rotted.

That's basically the Top 2 things that I absolutely hate about WWE. Hopefully next year, they don't make the same mistake with the booking again.

[Dark_Lady_18]

I do agree with you there Ed. The WWE Title should've been the main focus, but instead it was Cena and The Rock, and as i'm a fan of the Miz, it made him look unneccesary, which is not something they should be doing with the wrestlers who are the company's future. Also I have a major bug with the Cena/Rock at WM28 story. They really want to make the fans wait that long for a match between the faces of two different eras? Ridiculously long booking there. The bookings in general these days (with the exception of Kharma) has been making me do a lot of eye-rolling.

[Ed Burns]

I do agree with you there Ed. The WWE Title should've been the main focus, but instead it was Cena and The Rock, and as i'm a fan of the Miz, it made him look unneccesary, which is not something they should be doing with the wrestlers who are the company's future. Also I have a major bug with the Cena/Rock at WM28 story. They really want to make the fans wait that long for a match between the faces of two different eras? Ridiculously long booking there. The bookings in general these days (with the exception of Kharma) has been making me do a lot of eye-rolling.

I agree. Cena/Rock is gonna make almost everything else on Wrestlemania 28 seem irrelevant. They hype the hell out of it for a whole year to the point of nausea. I'll be willing to bet they won't even have the best match on the card either. If we get Taker/HHH 3, that'll probably be the best match of the show, but it'll be placed before another lame celebrity/coma induced, useless matchup. I really think WWE should've thrown the extra $$$$$$$ at the Rock, and had him wrestle Cena this past year.

[Dark_Lady_18]

Indeed, instead of a year-long wait. Another concern I have is that kayfabe-wise, Cena wants that match to be for the WWE Title. I seriously hope the title doesn't stay that long with Cena. Surely Summerslam's a worthy enough PPV for this match?

[Ed Burns]

Indeed, instead of a year-long wait. Another concern I have is that kayfabe-wise, Cena wants that match to be for the WWE Title. I seriously hope the title doesn't stay that long with Cena. Surely Summerslam's a worthy enough PPV for this match?

If he wants to wait that long, and make it for the WWE Title, he'll probably drop the Title, and get it back at Elimination Chamber. They can't keep the belt off Del Rio, or The Miz for an entire year just to hype the Cena/Rock match. Cena's getting to a point in his career where he doesn't need the Title to add to his legacy. Someone like Del Rio, or The Miz could use the Title a bit more.