Excellent Post Dan,

The one thing I respect in both HBK and Taker is their tendency to push up-comming wrestlers to main event status. Taker did it to his close friend Kane (masked, 1998, half-brother as per kayfabe) and many others. HBK did it to his close friend Triple H.

Excluding the above two wrestlers HBK and Taker have pushed many other guys to the top. For example Randy Orton, Edge and Chris Jericho. Speaking of Orton, Edge, and Jericho. I see a pattern here. Orton first feuded with Shawn, then he feuded with Taker. So was Edge. Based on this pattern, may be we are in store for a Jericho vs Taker feud which might culminate at WM 26.

Vince Macmahon’s recent segment in the Smackdown episode before Bragging Rights just confirmed it. “He says what starts now, will always end in Wrestle Mania!”

HBK(Heart Break Kid Shawn Micheals)and Undertaker are 2 good wrestlers and they both have the very good stamina.

P.S:that is all I have to say

Alex wrote:

Speaking of Orton, Edge, and Jericho. I see a pattern here. Orton first feuded with Shawn, then he feuded with Taker. So was Edge. Based on this pattern, may be we are in store for a Jericho vs Taker feud which might culminate at WM 26.

yes, there’s definitely a logical point about that.
And I have to agree both of them have great stamina and both can bear really a lot…

Alex wrote:

Excellent Post Dan,

The one thing I respect in both HBK and Taker is their tendency to push up-comming wrestlers to main event status. Taker did it to his close friend Kane (masked, 1998, half-brother as per kayfabe) and many others. HBK did it to his close friend Triple H.

Excluding the above two wrestlers HBK and Taker have pushed many other guys to the top. For example Randy Orton, Edge and Chris Jericho. Speaking of Orton, Edge, and Jericho. I see a pattern here. Orton first feuded with Shawn, then he feuded with Taker. So was Edge. Based on this pattern, may be we are in store for a Jericho vs Taker feud which might culminate at WM 26.

Vince Macmahon’s recent segment in the Smackdown episode before Bragging Rights just confirmed it. “He says what starts now, will always end in Wrestle Mania!”

This is exactly what I’m thinking, thanks for saying it out Alex. And I want to add that, both men are being betrayed by their very own fame! Why? Because since they are both most famous and top men of WWE, they have to attend in the top kinds of match, and that means dangerous and adrenaline-rushing matches such as HIAC, TLC, ladder etc. That leads to injuries, just simple as that!
But in addition to all the nonsense I just said, looking back at the WM25, “the match which saved the PPV” between ‘Taker and HBK are just simple single match. Don’t take me wrong, all I means here is how capable, incredible and reckless both men are; and look, their ability is just exceptionally inhuman.
So thank you JR. We are not expecting the men to retire, though me might be one day. But for now, they are still at the top, and guide others to the top as Alex said.

Well, for wrestlers to get that mega status like Taker and Shawn have, you have to have a great resume of good matches. Problem is, once there is that expectation on you, you have to deliver. They can still have not so good matches, but you still need to prove that you aren’t washed up.

That was the problem with Evan Bourne. Prior to his injury he was going to be big, but once it happened his career went down. WWE had to move on around him, and once he returned they could not figure out where to put him. For whatever reason, he should not have been put on Raw. Shemus is going to be the same story because he isn’t fully established.

Shawn and Taker are the only two guys who can work the schedules they do and its ok with everyone….well almost ok.

VieSinCalaway wrote:

Alex wrote:

Excellent Post Dan,

The one thing I respect in both HBK and Taker is their tendency to push up-comming wrestlers to main event status. Taker did it to his close friend Kane (masked, 1998, half-brother as per kayfabe) and many others. HBK did it to his close friend Triple H.

Excluding the above two wrestlers HBK and Taker have pushed many other guys to the top. For example Randy Orton, Edge and Chris Jericho. Speaking of Orton, Edge, and Jericho. I see a pattern here. Orton first feuded with Shawn, then he feuded with Taker. So was Edge. Based on this pattern, may be we are in store for a Jericho vs Taker feud which might culminate at WM 26.

Vince Macmahon’s recent segment in the Smackdown episode before Bragging Rights just confirmed it. “He says what starts now, will always end in Wrestle Mania!”

This is exactly what I’m thinking, thanks for saying it out Alex. And I want to add that, both men are being betrayed by their very own fame! Why? Because since they are both most famous and top men of WWE, they have to attend in the top kinds of match, and that means dangerous and adrenaline-rushing matches such as HIAC, TLC, ladder etc. That leads to injuries, just simple as that!
But in addition to all the nonsense I just said, looking back at the WM25, “the match which saved the PPV” between ‘Taker and HBK are just simple single match. Don’t take me wrong, all I means here is how capable, incredible and reckless both men are; and look, their ability is just exceptionally inhuman.
So thank you JR. We are not expecting the men to retire, though me might be one day. But for now, they are still at the top, and guide others to the top as Alex said.

I certainly agree with you on this regard Vie. Simple one on one matches can make a lot of history which the WWE has to realize. I mean, what is the point in having gimmick matches like Iron Man match betwen Cena and Orton, when the match is poorly choreographed between the two.

Vie, I am from India, and Indian movies have this sick tradition of Villian beating up the Hero for 2 hrs in a movie from the beginning, and only in the last half hour the hero comes back and beats up the Villain to death. By the way, FYI, Indian movies are 21/2 — 3 hours compared to a 1 1/2 — 2 hr English movies.

That was exactly the impression I had when I saw Orton vs Cena Iron Man match. I mean, Cena appeared almost dead for the whole 45 minutes with Orton beating him up left, right, and centre. Cena suddenly started to jump around in the last 15 minutes of the match as though he had come to wrestle afresh. Where is the logic WWE?

Instead, as you rightly said, the WWE can build creative storylines, reduce gimmick matches to make up for innovative and creative storylines, and embed them in simple one on one matches. For eg: the storyline of WM 25 match between Taker and Shawn Michaels was Shawn’s light would Outshine Taker’s darkness. Till the end, these two legends had worked sticking on to the storyline. Taker’s chokeslams, last rides, tombstones, hell’s gates were all kicked out by Shawn. And hence the match fits the storyline like a T. And it is arguably the match of the year. So, I think you have given a very valuable point, which the WWE must think over.

“That was exactly the impression I had when I saw Orton vs Cena Iron Man match. I mean, Cena appeared almost dead for the whole 45 minutes with Orton beating him up left, right, and centre. Cena suddenly started to jump around in the last 15 minutes of the match as though he had come to wrestle afresh. Where is the logic WWE?”

This has happened several times in WWE, typically the matches between ‘Taker and masked Kane. WWE wanted to bring Kane up but they don’t want to let ‘Taker down so they choose to let Kane beats ‘Taker like mad then at the very end ‘Taker suddenly fights like he never does before and Kane is defeated!

And single matches that made history-there are thousands of them. Hogan’s matches for instant, as far as I remember most of them are normal match (I might be wrong here-perhaps most of the matches I know are normal matches). vs Rock, vs Andre’, vs ‘Taker etc. It is the ones who take part in the matches that matter. We need one good storyline rather than hundreds of bad matches. I don’t like the way WWE starts putting the matches name into the PPV. That makes the match seems least valuable and dangerous. For instant last HIAC-how could it be called Hell if there were no blood, no thumbtacks, no hardcore action? That makes the HIAC looked like a joke now rather than the Satan’s Structure or Devil’s Playground. And comin’ next, TLC and Elimination Chamber is going to be murdered by that idea!

Absolutely right Vie,

In fact in one of the website article I read that Vince McMahon’s persistence with PG rating has got something to do with Linda MacMahon’s Senate run. Something was written in the likes of for the sake of his wife Vince wants to maintain the “Nice Guy” image of his show so that no criticism arises for Linda when she runs for the election. But I don’t know how far it is true.

Whatever be it the reason, if the WWE persists on PG rating, so be it. The idea that you have given is a great one. Summarily, all the WWE have got to do is to realize that they have deviated from the success formula that they adapted 15 — 20 years ago, which is to provide quality matches. And there were no gimmick matches like what we have now, in those days.

Moreover, as result of too many gimmick matches, like you rightly pointed out, there are a lot of bad matches. And the reason why, all matches are predictable. It gives us a feeling as though the WWE follows some sort of a ritual.
A Heel Wrestler is always a Coward,
A face wrestler will always lose as a result of screw-up,
In big PPV a wrestler will win only after nailing his signature move more than once,
Only heel wrestlers will use the cobra clutch and try to faint the opponent, but in all cases the opponent dosen’t,
Only when a Face Wrestler applies a submission hold the heel wrestler taps, but if the heel wrestler does it the Face Wrestler will make it to the ropes
In Tag Team Matches, the Heel Unit will always beat up one of the guys in the Face Unit. The Face wrestler will always be isolated from making a tag to his partner, it is only 5 minutes before the match that beaten up Face wrestler will make it to his partner and his partner will finish things off.

The reason why WWE run the same moves again and again is because they are too carried away with melodramatic storylines and their associated gimmick matches. Instead, as per your recommendation, they can focus on singles matches more and improve the quality of these singles matches.

One of the ways are like FOR EXAMPLE, if Taker wins one match with a Tombstone. Then the next match he would win using a Tombstone might be say five matches later. Until then, Taker might win using a Running Boot, or a Running DDT or may be a Roll-up. But all depends on Timing. The timing of the move should be such that even an ordinary move like the DDT must look good enough to pin the opponent.

Like Taker DDT’s the opponent from the Top Turn Buckle or when both wrestlers go exhausted, Taker out of nowhere hits a Spring-Board Leg Drop. Something like that. It is only a model. But the idea is to bring in unexpected moves, or sometimes simple moves applied at the right time for a pinfall win. This I am sure will surely work because the predictablity is eliminated by this. By this every pin attempt made by the wrestlers will be a nail-biter for the crowd and that certainly will add to the success of a show.

Plus, the WWE should avoid some mandatory boring rituals like a Heel wrestler applying a sleeper hold. Everyone will yawn when this happens because they know that the wrestler applying this hold will certainly not win the match. But I don’t mean to say that a wrestler should not use his signature move. Let them use their signature move like a SUPER FINISHER. They will be applied in pay-per-view matches, which not nescessarily will pin a wrestler, but can also be used to create some twists in the course of the match. These are some of the ways in which the WWE team can work more on singles matches and also improve their quality.

Alex wrote:

VieSinCalaway wrote:

Alex wrote:

Excellent Post Dan,

The one thing I respect in both HBK and Taker is their tendency to push up-comming wrestlers to main event status. Taker did it to his close friend Kane (masked, 1998, half-brother as per kayfabe) and many others. HBK did it to his close friend Triple H.

Excluding the above two wrestlers HBK and Taker have pushed many other guys to the top. For example Randy Orton, Edge and Chris Jericho. Speaking of Orton, Edge, and Jericho. I see a pattern here. Orton first feuded with Shawn, then he feuded with Taker. So was Edge. Based on this pattern, may be we are in store for a Jericho vs Taker feud which might culminate at WM 26.

Vince Macmahon’s recent segment in the Smackdown episode before Bragging Rights just confirmed it. “He says what starts now, will always end in Wrestle Mania!”

This is exactly what I’m thinking, thanks for saying it out Alex. And I want to add that, both men are being betrayed by their very own fame! Why? Because since they are both most famous and top men of WWE, they have to attend in the top kinds of match, and that means dangerous and adrenaline-rushing matches such as HIAC, TLC, ladder etc. That leads to injuries, just simple as that!
But in addition to all the nonsense I just said, looking back at the WM25, “the match which saved the PPV” between ‘Taker and HBK are just simple single match. Don’t take me wrong, all I means here is how capable, incredible and reckless both men are; and look, their ability is just exceptionally inhuman.
So thank you JR. We are not expecting the men to retire, though me might be one day. But for now, they are still at the top, and guide others to the top as Alex said.

I certainly agree with you on this regard Vie. Simple one on one matches can make a lot of history which the WWE has to realize. I mean, what is the point in having gimmick matches like Iron Man match betwen Cena and Orton, when the match is poorly choreographed between the two.

Vie, I am from India, and Indian movies have this sick tradition of Villian beating up the Hero for 2 hrs in a movie from the beginning, and only in the last half hour the hero comes back and beats up the Villain to death. By the way, FYI, Indian movies are 21/2 — 3 hours compared to a 1 1/2 — 2 hr English movies.

That was exactly the impression I had when I saw Orton vs Cena Iron Man match. I mean, Cena appeared almost dead for the whole 45 minutes with Orton beating him up left, right, and centre. Cena suddenly started to jump around in the last 15 minutes of the match as though he had come to wrestle afresh. Where is the logic WWE?

Instead, as you rightly said, the WWE can build creative storylines, reduce gimmick matches to make up for innovative and creative storylines, and embed them in simple one on one matches. For eg: the storyline of WM 25 match between Taker and Shawn Michaels was Shawn’s light would Outshine Taker’s darkness. Till the end, these two legends had worked sticking on to the storyline. Taker’s chokeslams, last rides, tombstones, hell’s gates were all kicked out by Shawn. And hence the match fits the storyline like a T. And it is arguably the match of the year. So, I think you have given a very valuable point, which the WWE must think over.

Sorry, didn’t know how to take part of it out. I am just looking at Alex’s comment about how Cena was beat up for the first 45 min. Most of the pinfalls were made before they reached the 45 min mark, so Cena did get a decent amount of offense for being a face. The thing is if it is a back and forth match or a face dominated match, it doesn’t create as great a story because then you are basically waiting for the time to run out. Since Cena was behind, it kept people rooting for Cena because what is there to root for, if it is a back and forth match. Also when you have a 60 min match you can’t really go back and forth that much because it will actually get rather annoying. Back and forth matches work well in normal matches. Towards the end when Cena seemed to almost look fresh I guess you could say, it showed how he could take a beating and still come back to finish the fight. This is the WWE, Entertainment not UFC so you don’t really need to follow something logical because even with one punch most guys would be knocked out. Of course you can’t pretend your knee is hurt and act like it’s a 100% later because you still want to keep it somewhat real. I think the fact that Cena came back at the end is very logical considering that he is a face and is portrayed as a never quit person.

And by the way I respect what your saying, but you can’t say Cena and Orton didn’t have any logic in that match.

Wonder who will be Taker’s opponent in his match?